www.bible.com/72/rev.4.11.hcsb
Sorry about the late post today. Time got away from me this morning. But I looked at this verse and immediately knew what I needed to write about it.
If you make something, do you feel ownership is entitled to you? I mean, if I write a post, and someone else quotes from my post without giving attribution, will that make me upset? Of course, and rightly so. That material is an extension of me, it goes forth from me and represents my thoughts and inner workings. It is me to an extent.
So when God creates the universe, is He entitled to credit for making it? Duh. And yet, what has happened? Why is there so much desperation to make it a natural random chance event? Why are there those fanatical about making the universe create itself? Because doesn’t that put the creative earnest right our laps? Surely the atheist believes that is the universe created itself, and we are the highest form of life in this universe, we are responsible for creating ourselves. Or something like that. And we don’t have to give credit where credit is due.
But God is the Creator, and He is entitled both for credit and for Ownership. He made it. It belongs to Him unless He willingly sells it to someone else. And there is another who stole it from Him, stole the power of the air for himself and stole men away from God. So God sent His Son. Jesus died and paid the ransom for many. God owns us. Twice. He will own is a third time when He grants us a resurrection body, a newly created thing when we lose this one to death.
Isn’t God amazing? Let us glorify Him together.
Meritt Musings 
‘Surely the atheist believes that is the universe created itself, and we are the highest form of life in this universe’
No, atheism is not about the origin of the universe. Atheists don’t know how the universe began (before the big bang) and neither do you. They certainly do not believe the universe created itself. They don’t know.
Likewise, there is nothing in atheism that declares humans are the highest lifeform. You appear to conflate different ideas and attach beliefs to atheism that are separate.
Atheism is not cosmology, it’s non belief in any gods. Surely you knew that?
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I have my opinion. You have yours. Cosmology is inherent in atheism, because it eliminates a first cause, and does so with confidence. Atheism may not know how the universe began, but they certainly how it didn’t, which sounds like they know something about cosmology. I have seen a lot of different kinds of atheism. Some are better worked out than others. Just because you are an atheist doesn’t mean all atheists believe the same way you do. That’s true for Christians too. I have no axe to grind here. These are my observations.
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It seems a mistake to me to generalise about atheists’ beliefs and merge their theist non-belief with separate cosmology ideas.
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Help me out here. Are you saying that a general understanding of atheism does not include a cosmology? Or are you just referring to your own understanding?
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Yes.
An understanding of science is not necessary for atheism.
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So atheism is strictly a philosophy. Not an attempt to explain the way things are?
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It’s a response to a theological question. And yes, it does not attempt to explain anything.
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So what’s the point being an atheist if it doesn’t attempt to explain anything? It’s a great big Nothing burger. I mean, it’s like grasping air. It doesn’t explain anything. It denies a Cause for anything. What is the point?
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The point is to deny an unbelievable creation myth and deity.
For those who are interested, there are places to look for possible lines of inquiry based on at least some evidence and reason.
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I am sorry. I must have misunderstood you. Because When you turn to evidence and reason to prove your theological point, you are using science to prove something doesn’t exist metaphysically. How do you prove a negative? Are you sure you looked everywhere? Are you sure you are using the right tools?
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I’m not doing using science to prove a theological point. The science part is a separate conversation. The creation myth is too difficult to believe for me to believe without any need to turn to cosmology.
My underlying.point is that atheism is not caused by science. Atheism would still exist even if science did not.
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No. My mistake. It isn’t science to use evidence and reason. That is the realm of logic. I was thinking evidence would come from science. But that isn’t necessarily so. But even in logic, it is impossible to prove a negative. I may propose there is no life on Mars. You may counter me by saying we just haven’t looked in the right place. You would be right. To say there is no Creator God and to dismiss all the information we presently have as myth, I think is taking a step too far. How do you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no God? Is this a matter of personal belief? Or logical conclusion? If the latter, what is your proof? Because if you present to me that you cannot believe in the god of the Christians, that’s just disagreement with the kind of God you want, not proof he doesn’t exist.
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I use the Christian god as the vehicle for my disbelief because that’s the one I know. I was sent to catholic schools and listened incredulously. I have seen nothing that would make me switch to another religion os I made a decision. The most likely explanaion that fits with the world around us is that no god exists. I often read these blogs and join in discussions but everything christian writers have said have reinforced my feeling that no god exists.
Nobody has suggested anything that supports the christian faith which is weird. With the big claims they make about god, god’s existance should be obvious but it is not.
If god does exist, why is it so obscure and why has such a god placed all that evidence that refutes the bible stories?
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First, I might point out that God is not so obscure that you have never heard of Him. While the evidence to support belief in Him May be scarce in your opinion, you have heard of Him from several sources. So there is at least ample evidence for the idea of God.
Second, you continue to insist that there is no evidence for God, but have yet to cite this evidence. I find it difficult to believe that after reading a host of Christian writers, not one has offered any evidence for God. That’s your observation and I respect that, but I find it difficult to believe. What do you consider “evidence”?
Third, your observation that you “listened incredulously” seems odd. How did you develop such a bias against Catholicism at such a young age? Sounds more like an adult looking back on childhood to me, but your experience is certainly your own.
I appreciate your thoughts and comments. You sharpen my thinking as I hope I do yours. Have a good day!
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